Its so small you barely know its there, and its also rated for sub- and supersonic loads. I would really like to hear from you guys who have had access and range time with these MSR's. Before we get there, lets look at the concept of the personal-defense weapon (PDW). I think I've driven myself mad with comparing the pros and cons. PDW stands for personal defense weapon. It is not a term that Springfield Armory invented. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The new RIA 5.0 Sporting Pistol from Rock Island Armory features a patented RVS Recoil system that maximizes barrel mass and linear movement to give shooters super soft recoil. Ben Voss FN Product Manager talks about the new FN SCAR 15P ultra-compact rifle-caliber pistol at SHOT Show 2023. Has anyone actually tried the omega 9k on the rattler? Whereas the SIG Sauer presented direct pressure against a solid object, the Saints trigger offered a subtle compression before reaching its breaking point. After comparing the two the Springfield was built better and looked better and had better brace . They are more compact and lighter than ever, Making it the ideal weapon for Rapid deployment and close quarter work. If you havent heard yet, be advised that millions of gun owners may soon be classified as felons if a new Bureau of Alcohol, AR-15 Carbines for Less Than $1300: The Winner is a Saint, SIG Sauer P365XL Spectre P365V001 9mm Luger, Springfield Armory Hellcat Pro HCP9379BOSP 9mm Luger, SHOT 2023: Savage Arms Introduces 1911 Government Model Pistols, 5 Best 9mm Pistols for Concealed Carry in 2023, New Shooters Guide: The Best Gun For Home Defense Isnt a. Modern PDWs are often designed to be able to penetrate soft body armor with armor-piercing (AP) ammo. We applied a snap-on buttpad from Limbsaver and was pleasantly surprised at how much more comfortable it was to shoot. It loves 150 grain bullets, does well down to 120 grain below that that deer,hog killer doesnt group to my expectations. If the general shape of Springfields PDW looks a little familiar to you, theres a reason for that. As to suppressibility, few centerfire rifle cartridges do it better. The ambidextrous controls worked quite well, and the safety lever on the off hand did not interfere with the shooter, be he right-handed or left-handed. The grip was certainly not traditional, offering a very friendly profile, including a pinkie ledge, at the bottom and an extended backstrap up over the web of the hand. Brand: Springfield. Comfortable to hold, the handguard offered the most versatility of our three rifles. Rather, the AR-15 is an ideal defensive weapon necessary for the legally armed defense-conscious American. The Gunfighter grip offers an extended backstrap to shield the web of the hand and the knurled side panels that provided excellent traction. Its solid visual form led us to refer to it as a forend rather than a handguard. Before we jump headlong into what the market holds, perhaps we should touch upon why you might want to go a 300 Blackout pistol. It was very easy to move quickly, and the gun always felt light. Elwood Shelton is an online content developer for Gun Digest. Whereas there is nothing special about the front sight, buttstock, or handguard, upgrades to the magazine release, safety levers, and the bolt catch are more expensive to manufacture or supply than a fancy handguard or buttstock. The SCW assembly isnt just a short buffer tube; it includes a shortened, proprietary bolt carrier group (BCG), and the buffer and spring protrude into the upper receiver when the bolt is closed. So, as you can see, this is the ultimate platform for a protective detail, SWAT operations where concealability is paramount, or vehicle or home defense with responsible citizens. The BCM Gunfighter buttstock offered sleek lines with no protruding levers that might catch on gear, such as the straps of a chest rig. Upon an audible start signal, the shooter raised the carbine from low ready (about a 30-degree angle to the horizon), switched off the safety, and engaged each target with only one round before moving on. I just wish the right-side lever was shorter so it wouldnt bump my trigger finger when flipping it off. Over ten trigger pulls we never got the same reading twice. I was at a gun expo local set up by or LGS where all the repp's come and its a shoot day . Two of the loads were subsonic; Sigs 220-grain OTMs clustered into 0.7 inches while Lehigh Defenses 194-grain Maximum Expansion (ME) rounds created a 1-inch group. Learn how your comment data is processed. 9mm this thing is a work of art and insanely smooth as silk , it shoots its self ..LOL. All remaining rounds produced 1-inch groups. M400 tread or Springfield saint victor : r/ar15 - reddit The SIG Rattler is something special. Reader's Choice: Best AR-15 (Stock or Factory Model) - The Firearm Blog I mainly shoot at an indoor range. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY - SAINT 16" 5.56 BRAVO CO MLOK HANDGUARD. For more information, please see our Definitely looking at the Sig, but having a hard time forking over that much money. Why pay more? S pringfield Armory rocked the firearms community with the introduction of the SAINT rifle in 2016. After some time and the Rattler was more widely seen in the wild. If you need a discreet weapon for 100-yard engagements, it's perfect. SIG MCX Rattler SBR . Sure, they are a ton of fun at the range, teaching children how to shoot, and for use in defending the homestead, but consider them for hunting applications as well. I got the email also Bio. SIG MCX Rattler For Sale SIG Rattler and SIG MCX Rattler 5.56/300Blk Pistols For Sale Online All new SIG MCX Rattler Pistols are now available in 5.56 and 300 Blackout calibers. Essentially, this makes the suppressors job easier, since it has less expanding gas to dissipate. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Gun Tests has been independently reviewing firearms since 1989. All in, our CMMG rifle displayed 1-MOA accuracy on average for all shots fired, despite our difficulties with the trigger. Many contend a 1:8 twist will stabilize heavy subsonic bullets. Please give me your thoughts and opinions! and our A final note, the Protector is a very shootable pistol, thanks in part to its heft (a shade under 6 pounds). The only difference are the built in QD mounts to any other lower. Indoors, every load produced visible flash, but premium ammo gave me a small, manageable flash. Save my name and email to use for future comments. The A-zone measured 11 inches tall and about 5.75 inches wide. Maximum bullet weight was considered to be 69 grains. Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308 - M4Carbine.net I run the SIG SRD762TI on my Rattler. Wilson Combat SFX9 5-Inch Solid Frame 9mm Pistol: First Look. The hammer and trigger components were treated to a silvery nickel-boron coating. Springfield currently doesnt have any plans for a version in .300 AAC Blackout, but (hint hint) it would be a very smart move, as the .300 BLK performs much better out of short barrels than the 5.56. Full Member. Target order was dictated as a circuit of left, center, right, left, center, right, and so on. So had to go home and think about it , while driving she asked which one I liked , i like them all but of course . Any ways I just bought the Springfield Saint Victor in .308 . I've handled a Saint, and I would definitely go with the Sig. The companys thinking must be a suppressor is going on there anyway, so cut costs with the standard muzzle device. Now with the updated SAINT Edge PDW goes further, by going smaller. On a full-size rifle or carbine, I think the relieved magazine well of the Saint Edge looks a bit small, but on this build it looks just right. The barrel is tipped with a special version of Maxim Defenses interesting Hate Brake. Im a lefty so the gas hits me right in the face. As our tests continued and the trigger broke in, we sometimes experienced only one stopping point before break. But I also own several Springfields (M1As in 308 & 6.5cm, Saint Ar15 when it first came out, compact XDe, XDs & XD Mod2 all in 45s, TRPs in 45 & 10mm and the now discontinued Range Officer in 45). Our Team Said: Priced at $900 MSRP, the Saint should be extremely competitive for first-time buyers. I want to buy a PDWWhat takes the cake? | Sniper's Hide Forum Can't wait to find the price on this and see one in person . I am reminded that short barrels are inherently more accurate as there is less flexing during the recoil cycle. Its truly impressive. We think this made the trigger a little more user friendly in that there seemed to be more time for the shooter to completely refine a shot. Dont be fooled, a 16-inch carbine in Blackout will outperform a 9-inch Blackout pistol. We set up a three-target array with just 10 feet between each target. I put a ton of ammunition through this rifle, and everything workedtypical of the MCX series. The new big bore pistols feature industry-first capacity, with a standard 15-round capacity and 22+1 rounds of 10mm or 18+1 rounds of .45 ACP from the extended magazines. You get what you pay for, in this case a pistol loaded with the companys high-performance custom parts and extras you wont find on economy models. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. The Black Hills 77-grain OTM rounds were next best, showing an average five-shot group measuring about 0.9 inch. The Rattler is, essentially, as. The detent spring was quite heavy and the grip necessary to compress it proved awkward. The result was sub-MOA groups (less than 1 inch center to center) from two of the five test ammunitions, including our lightest bullet and our heaviest. The buttstock was properly applied and showed only the slightest wiggle. Additionally, the gun has one of the best brace systems going, a fast-deploying affair that cuts the size of the firearm nearly in half when folded in. What is it? The Rattler runs a very dependable gas-piston system, which eliminates all the fouling typical in these short-barreled configurations. Looking past the outdated grip and buttstock, this is a very good rifle that deserved a much better trigger. Help me! Springfield Armory Saint vs Sig Sauer M400 Tread : r/ar15 - reddit Whereas releasing the bolt is aided by the larger platform, setting the lock means pressing down on the smaller end. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. they bring all the guns and you buy the ammo and have a blast . This is why the gun world is awash in top-notch 300 Blackout pistols. You have entered an incorrect email address! The 194-grain Lehigh Defense ME bullet was the only subsonic to expand. I was a big Sig fan , After buyig the 1st Tread M400 , I had the Tread 5.56 Pistol on my list , then the Tread 716I - .308 AR-10 , But when I went to buy the tread M400 5.56 pistol I looked at the Springfield Saint 300 Black out . Top 300 Blackout Pistol Options For Every Budget, 5 Best AR-10 Options You Can Actually Afford (2023), Best .380 Pistol Options For Deep Carry (2023), 8 On-Target Concealed Carry Insurance Options (2022), 10 Affordable Double-Barrel Shotgun Options (2022), Best AR-15 Options For Any Budget And Buyers Guide (2022), Best Concealed Carry Handguns For Women (2022). The new-for-2023 lineup includes ultralight hunting stocks and a VGA 2-pound adjustable vertical-grip stock. Higher-level shooters might prefer a hard break without overture, but its certainly not a distraction that will inhibit the experienced shooter. Profits before the 2A. While chambered in 5.56 NATO, the Springfield Armory Saint Edge PDW has but a 5.5-inch barrel. Pushing the SIG Sauer 77-grain OTM rounds to an average velocity of 2440 fps, the SIG Sauer ammunition, marked Match Grade Rifle, was still nevertheless well below the 2750 fps printed on the box. I had several concerns due to its comically short barrel, its accuracy, reliability and velocity. Introduced in 2015, the MCX is essentially a larger, rifle-caliber version of Sig Sauers pistol-caliber MPX. The PDW with the Hate Brake produced far less flash and noise than a 16-inch-barreled AR equipped with a traditional muzzlebrake. The Black Hills 60-grain V-Max rounds produced 0.8-inch-wide groups, and the 77-grain SIG Sauer rounds printed 0.9-inch-wide groups. However, on the PDW, the Reptilia grip and the provided 20-round magazines look perfect. New Shooters Guide: What Is a Pistol Caliber Carbine? Springfield Armory of Illinois has been producing its own versions of the iconic M1A rifle for many years, but Springfield, like several other manufacturers, is known primarily as makers of handguns, or for that matter bolt-action rifles. Listen to both sides of the story before you make a decision based on one magazine article. To find out if any of the above added up to improved performance, we tested for accuracy from the 100-yard line at American Shooting Centers in Houston. Do Pistols Benefit From Popular Aftermarket Modifications? View Product. Barrel-twist rate was 1:7, and breaking down the rifle revealed a reduced-mass hammer. Jeff Bradley shows off the Modern Hunting Rifle (MHR) from Christensen Arms at SHOT Show 2023. (CA Compliant). Following the success of its initial collaboration with Vertx, Premier Body Armor announces its continued partnership. Logical on the surface, given faster twist rates are generally required for heavier bullets, but there is debate on the matter. To get started, click the link below to visit mymagnow.com and learn how to access your digital magazine. Honey badger .300bo 5. I recently got the Tread 716i 308, MCX Rattler in 300 BLK and MPX K (completes my collection as I also have the MPX Copperhead and PCC). That said, and this being Wilson, dont expect some off-the-rack experience with the gun. Sig offers several variants, including pistols with stabilizing braces. Completely compatible with average, every day 5.56 ARs, the 300 Blackout upper is a viable route into the caliber (though if you shoot suppressed you might have to up your buffer weight). Here are my personal Pros & Cons of the Saint Victor (FEATURELESS, CA Compliant version) Pros: - Comes with basic flip-up sights ready to go out of box - Full length M-Lok rail slots (TREAD seems to stop 8/10 of the way from the front) - Lighter Cons: - $1400+tax - 2 port MB rather than M400's 3 port (any difference in felt recoil?) To order a copy and subscribe, visitoutdoorgroupstore.com. 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. Specs and Features Parts are straight off the "recommended" list, as Saint uses an M16-profile USGI-spec bolt carrier group with a select Carpenter 158 bolt. Garmin Tactix 7 Pro Ballistic Solar-Powered GPS Smartwatch: First Look, How to Choose the Best Scope Reticle for Your Application, Colt King Cobra Target 22LR Rimfire Revolver: New for 2022, Self-Defense Handgun and Ammo Options for People With Dexterity and Strength Issues, 5 Best Red-Dot Optics for SIG Sauer P365X & XL Pistols. OK, so they want in sending rounds waaaay downrange. A spring detent pin was compressed to fold it down. It is everywhere and inexpensive, especially when compared to those two boutique cartridges. The M400 tread is sort of a gimmicky rifle from Sig. The Sig Rattler would fit the description of what your looking for perfectly with a 5.5 in .300blk barrel and no buffer tube. Another latecomer to AR manufacturing, Ruger has proven fast in picking up the rules of the game. Rattler was built to be fired primarily unsuppressed, with the ability to be suppressed, if needed. The SIG MCX Rattler Review - YouTube Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! I own the Springfield Saint Victor. Also visible with the top end hinged away was the Accu-Tite tension system consisting of a synthetic non-marring screw that mated flush beneath the bottom of the connecting lug. Can the SIG MCX Rattler do it? Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. That never occurred with the Dead Air Sandman-K, but the Rattler never missed a beat with either and ejected every case as fast as could I pull the trigger. There was, however, a relief on each side of the handguard about 2.5 inches ahead of the receiver for attaching a quick detach (QD) button-style sling loop. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. For a full answer to that, were going to have to explore exactly what a PDW is, but before I do that, lets look at the specs of this gun. Maybe they will give me some clarity. Anything under 10.5" and not only do you run the risk of a strike but you are also going to get a ton of unburnt powder trashing the inside of the can. At that time the price on that gun was $1,800. FN sells a 16-inch-barreled carbine version of the P90, the PS90, but it looks ugly and awkward and is far from compact. We did, however, find the bolt catch to be weak. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. Working the charging handle was smooth and revealed no linear movement. So much so that we almost took to calling it a three-stage trigger. But Wilsons Q-Comp flash hider/muzzle brake also does its part in keeping the gun manageable. In fact, it wasnt that long ago that SIG was in a similar position. SIG Sauer Introduces the New SIG Tread Snakebite SE. To change the shooters perspective and in effect reduce target area, we staggered the targets. As to the tale of the tape, the gun has a 10.5-inch cold hammer-forged barrel (1:7 twist) and comes in at a very agile 5.8 pounds. As to the brace, its a Tailhook Mod 2, an adjustable model that does an excellent job of settling in the gun. The new 9mm suppressor can mount easily to any pistol barrel threaded x28 inches and doesn't compromise on sound suppression, gas blowback or recoil. The other rifles did not suffer this complaint. One last more subtle upgrade was the trigger guard from Bravo Company that left more room for a gloved finger without necessarily having to unlatch the bottom panel. The heavier 120- to 125-grain loads performed similarly. Joe Kurtenbach, Executive Editor of Gun & Ammo, and John Myles from Smith & Wesson discuss features of the Equalizer 9mm micro-compact pistol and new-for-2023 M&P 5.7. The full-profile barrel creates a line that grows from a polymer handguard by Bravo Company that was flat on the sides, adorned with sections of pebbled finish for grip. Starting in 2009, Advanced Armament Corporation (AAC), in cooperation with Remington Defense, took J.D. The Saint was the only carbine in the test that listed a heavy tungsten buffer among its specs, and it showed by delivering less felt recoil to the shooter. June 22nd, 2017, 09:15 PM #2. . In use, it seemed to all but disappear. I would deploy this as a dedicated entry rifle in a heartbeat. I was really happy . As was the case with the M400 Classic, the front sight was not visible with the Tango4 optical scope mounted. But there are a few key reasons why the .30-caliber is better suited for compact ARs. First AR15 purchase; SIG M400 TREAD v. Springfield Saint Victor? (CA More money for ammo, Fsatureless affords full capacity magazines, @bamaengineer may i ask why you would choose the Sig over the Saint? Though, the pistol is a 1:8 twist rate affair. With the brace fully extended, the pistol is 23.5-inches in length. As such, the challenge for Springfield Armory was to offer an AR-15 that distinguished itself from the competition and was affordably priced. But thats what your 20-inch barreled baby is for, right? Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. 4. So was the grip and handguard. Another design goal was optimized sound suppressor use, so sub- and supersonic 300 Blackout loads were developed. I'm like seriously I could of got the checkmate . Springfield Armory SAINT 5.56 NATO [MSRP $919] - Bravo Company Buttstock/Pistol Grip/Handguard/Trigger Guard, Nickel Boron GI Trigger, 16 Melonite Barrel w/ 1:8 Twist. Sig Sauer The AR Pistol Afield. So these two were on my list . Wed prefer a free-float sling attachment, but the Saint is handsome and well made at a good price. Build a gun that works and, by gum, the world will beat a path to your door. 354K views 4 years ago In this episode of TFBTV, James Reeves reviews the SIG MCX Rattler, a 5.5" PDW in .300BLK that has been purchased for US SOCOM evaluation. Life has a melody. It has a pretty decent barrel and is reliable, so I can recommend it as a solid choice. Our Team Said: The CMMG Mk4T showed extremely good balance. I found myself hooking my index finger around the front of it while shooting as opposed to actually using it as a hand stop. 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Instead of being located at 3 oclock and 9 oclock, additional Keymod holes were located in a line upon the surface area that angled upward to the top rail (10 oclock and 2 oclock). Pistol: Semi-Auto. Working the Saint trigger differed from that of the SIG Sauer. Apr 24, 2017 The Sig Rattler is only available with a 5.5 inch barrel, in 300 Blackout or 5.56mm. Barrel is Chromemoly Vanadium, Melonite coated inside and out, 1:8 twist and a NATO chamber. Not only did the 77-grainers shoot straight, this uber-short-barreled pistol grouped between 2.5 and 4 MOA with everything I gave it. Their latest addition is the Saint Edge PDW AR pistol, and Im sure it will get its large slice of the AR pie. Given the test barrel used to produce this data was likely 20 inches or more in length, we think this was still somewhat out of spec. The 300 Blackout pistol model is no different, but few shooters miss the bells and whistles with a gun that goes bang with every trigger pull and hits the mark. The only upgrade we spied was a relief in the takedown pin that helps keep the punch, or bullet tip, from sliding off under pressure. The metal loop at the heel of buttplate was free swinging. With the Saint Edge series of ARs, you get nicely sculpted lower receivers machined from billet aluminum. The efficiency and versatility of barrels have been upgraded to take advantage of heavier bullets able to land a more effective blow at greater distance. I was a big Sig fan , After buyig the 1st Tread M400 , I had the Tread 5.56 Pistol on my list , then the Tread 716I - .308 AR-10 , But when I went to buy the tread M400 5.56 pistol I looked at the Springfield Saint 300 Black out . A quick note on sub- and supersonic ammunition and suppression. A free-float handguard would likely make this the perfect carbine. Handguards are now modular platforms for lights, lasers, and sights, and ambidextrous fire controls are becoming more popular as well. Want to optimize the hush on a 300 Blackout pistolor carbineits a subsonic ammunition affair. Sounds like an excuse to get another can like a Dead Air Sandman-S. +1 this is what I ordered for my Rattler. The bottom of the grip was removable, and there were fittings to hold popular batteries such as the CR123 or AA inside. The 300 rattler was designed to be suppressed. I said you really loved shooting the orange . This video does make me feel better about Springfield. Top 5 Suppressor Brands - Firearms News Springfield Armory SAINT 5.56 NATO [MSRP $919] Sig Sauer M400 Tread 5.56 NATO [MSRP $949] - 16 Stainless Steel Barrel, Free-Floating M-LOK Handguard, . The first and third pics are the rifle I examined, but the second isn't. The $1000 CMMG Mk4T may still use the M1 buttstock and grip, but the 416 stainless-steel barrel offered a 1:7 twist on the inside and a bead-blast finish on the outside.